Feature request: soft link support in Windows XP via LSE

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Feature request: soft link support in Windows XP via LSE

Andrew Pennebaker
There's a third party app for adding soft link support to Windows XP:


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Re: Feature request: soft link support in Windows XP via LSE

Earnie Boyd
On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 8:49 AM, Andrew Pennebaker wrote:
> There's a third party app for adding soft link support to Windows XP:
>

There is a ticket already open for this.  Eventually, it will happen
but not anytime soon.

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-- https://sites.google.com/site/earnieboyd

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Re: Feature request: soft link support in Windows XP via LSE

Eli Zaretskii
> Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 09:01:49 -0400
> From: Earnie Boyd <[hidden email]>
>
> On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 8:49 AM, Andrew Pennebaker wrote:
> > There's a third party app for adding soft link support to Windows XP:
> >
>
> There is a ticket already open for this.  Eventually, it will happen
> but not anytime soon.

There's a working symlink support for Windows in Emacs, it includes
'symlink', 'readlink', and a few auxiliary functions.  (It also
includes 'lstat', but that relies on a 'stat' engine that is
ABI-incompatible with the MS runtime.)  If these functions are what
this is all about, the OP could lift that code with minimal changes
and use it.

That code could also be a basis for the future MinGW implementation
(again, assuming I understand correctly what that ticket is about).

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Re: Feature request: soft link support in Windows XP via LSE

waterlan
In reply to this post by Earnie Boyd
Op 15-3-2013 14:01, Earnie Boyd schreef:
> On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 8:49 AM, Andrew Pennebaker wrote:
>> There's a third party app for adding soft link support to Windows XP:
>>
> There is a ticket already open for this.  Eventually, it will happen
> but not anytime soon.
>

In a Cygwin 1.7 shell I can make (emulated) soft links. So is this not
solved in msys 2.0 then?

--
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http://waterlan.home.xs4all.nl/


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Re: Feature request: soft link support in Windows XP via LSE

Alexey Pavlov-2


2013/3/15 Erwin Waterlander <[hidden email]>
Op 15-3-2013 14:01, Earnie Boyd schreef:
> On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 8:49 AM, Andrew Pennebaker wrote:
>> There's a third party app for adding soft link support to Windows XP:
>>
> There is a ticket already open for this.  Eventually, it will happen
> but not anytime soon.
>

In a Cygwin 1.7 shell I can make (emulated) soft links. So is this not
solved in msys 2.0 then?

I think we don't need emulate soft links in msys-2.0 because MSYS is tool for building native WINDOWS application with MINGW and soft links (emulated) do not work outside MSYS. 

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Re: Feature request: soft link support in Windows XP via LSE

Eli Zaretskii
> Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 18:44:57 +0400
> From: Алексей Павлов <[hidden email]>
>
> 2013/3/15 Erwin Waterlander <[hidden email]>
>
> > Op 15-3-2013 14:01, Earnie Boyd schreef:
> > > On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 8:49 AM, Andrew Pennebaker wrote:
> > >> There's a third party app for adding soft link support to Windows XP:
> > >>
> > > There is a ticket already open for this.  Eventually, it will happen
> > > but not anytime soon.
> > >
> >
> > In a Cygwin 1.7 shell I can make (emulated) soft links. So is this not
> > solved in msys 2.0 then?
> >
>
> I think we don't need emulate soft links in msys-2.0 because MSYS is tool
> for building native WINDOWS application with MINGW and soft links
> (emulated) do not work outside MSYS.

Yes, I agree.  It is much better to generate symlinks that will be
honored by all native Windows applications.


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Re: Feature request: soft link support in Windows XP via LSE

Earnie Boyd
In reply to this post by Alexey Pavlov-2
On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 10:44 AM, Алексей Павлов wrote:

>
>
> 2013/3/15 Erwin Waterlander
>>
>> Op 15-3-2013 14:01, Earnie Boyd schreef:
>> > On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 8:49 AM, Andrew Pennebaker wrote:
>> >> There's a third party app for adding soft link support to Windows XP:
>> >>
>> > There is a ticket already open for this.  Eventually, it will happen
>> > but not anytime soon.
>> >
>>
>> In a Cygwin 1.7 shell I can make (emulated) soft links. So is this not
>> solved in msys 2.0 then?
>
>
> I think we don't need emulate soft links in msys-2.0 because MSYS is tool
> for building native WINDOWS application with MINGW and soft links (emulated)
> do not work outside MSYS.

I envision OS native support for symlinks, or junction points, or fail
back to copy as supported by the FS/OS.  We cannot use the emulated
soft links via the .lnk files, the OS native software does not know
how to handle them.

--
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-- https://sites.google.com/site/earnieboyd

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Re: Feature request: soft link support in Windows XP via LSE

waterlan
In reply to this post by Eli Zaretskii
Op 15-3-2013 16:05, Eli Zaretskii schreef:

>> Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 18:44:57 +0400
>> From: Алексей Павлов <[hidden email]>
>>
>> 2013/3/15 Erwin Waterlander <[hidden email]>
>>
>>> Op 15-3-2013 14:01, Earnie Boyd schreef:
>>>> On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 8:49 AM, Andrew Pennebaker wrote:
>>>>> There's a third party app for adding soft link support to Windows XP:
>>>>>
>>>> There is a ticket already open for this.  Eventually, it will happen
>>>> but not anytime soon.
>>>>
>>> In a Cygwin 1.7 shell I can make (emulated) soft links. So is this not
>>> solved in msys 2.0 then?
>>>
>> I think we don't need emulate soft links in msys-2.0 because MSYS is tool
>> for building native WINDOWS application with MINGW and soft links
>> (emulated) do not work outside MSYS.
> Yes, I agree.  It is much better to generate symlinks that will be
> honored by all native Windows applications.
>

I don't see why msys should be able to create symlinks that are
understood by Windows XP, via a third part app.
I would say: Upgrade to Windows 7 or 8.

It is also not clear to me what Andrew actually wants to achieve. He
only points to program.

regards,

--
Erwin Waterlander
http://waterlan.home.xs4all.nl/


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Re: Feature request: soft link support in Windows XP via LSE

waterlan
In reply to this post by Alexey Pavlov-2
Op 15-3-2013 15:44, Алексей Павлов schreef:

>
>
> 2013/3/15 Erwin Waterlander <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>
>     Op 15-3-2013 14:01, Earnie Boyd schreef:
>     > On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 8:49 AM, Andrew Pennebaker wrote:
>     >> There's a third party app for adding soft link support to
>     Windows XP:
>     >>
>     > There is a ticket already open for this. Eventually, it will happen
>     > but not anytime soon.
>     >
>
>     In a Cygwin 1.7 shell I can make (emulated) soft links. So is this not
>     solved in msys 2.0 then?
>
>
> I think we don't need emulate soft links in msys-2.0 because MSYS is
> tool for building native WINDOWS application with MINGW and soft links
> (emulated) do not work outside MSYS.
>

It may be helpful for msys itself. Symlinks are often used in
installations. For instance links to binaries and man pages. This would
save disk space.

This would lead to that mingw is only workable inside msys, and not in
cmd.exe any more, which is a good thing I think.

regards,

--
Erwin Waterlander
http://waterlan.home.xs4all.nl/

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Re: Feature request: soft link support in Windows XP via LSE

Eli Zaretskii
> Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 19:27:24 +0100
> From: Erwin Waterlander <[hidden email]>
>
> It may be helpful for msys itself. Symlinks are often used in
> installations. For instance links to binaries and man pages. This would
> save disk space.

Who needs to save disk space these days?

Besides, every configure script knows how to fall back on cp since
about forever.

> This would lead to that mingw is only workable inside msys, and not in
> cmd.exe any more, which is a good thing I think.

No, it would be a Bad Thing, because then MinGW will cease to be an
environment for producing native Windows programs.  Cygwin already
fills that niche very nicely; why do we need another one?

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Re: Feature request: soft link support in Windows XP via LSE

Andrew Pennebaker
My primary use case: I like to version control my dotfiles (~/.emacs), and use git to sync them on many different computers. When I pull changes to my dotfiles repo, I like the same changes to occur in my home directory.

As a mitigation, you can use git hooks to automatically cp the version-controlled file into the home directory.

Today I discovered "fsutil hardlink create" in Windows XP, and it seems to do the job nicely: When I make a change in ~/.emacs or dotfiles/emacs, one change is reflected in the other :)


On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 2:51 PM, Eli Zaretskii <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 19:27:24 +0100
> From: Erwin Waterlander <[hidden email]>
>
> It may be helpful for msys itself. Symlinks are often used in
> installations. For instance links to binaries and man pages. This would
> save disk space.

Who needs to save disk space these days?

Besides, every configure script knows how to fall back on cp since
about forever.

> This would lead to that mingw is only workable inside msys, and not in
> cmd.exe any more, which is a good thing I think.

No, it would be a Bad Thing, because then MinGW will cease to be an
environment for producing native Windows programs.  Cygwin already
fills that niche very nicely; why do we need another one?

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--
Cheers,

Andrew Pennebaker

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Re: Feature request: soft link support in Windows XP via LSE

Eli Zaretskii
> Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 15:40:55 -0400
> From: Andrew Pennebaker <[hidden email]>
>
> Today I discovered "fsutil hardlink create" in Windows XP, and it seems to
> do the job nicely: When I make a change in ~/.emacs or dotfiles/emacs, one
> change is reflected in the other :)

You can create hard links with Emacs itself, no need for external
utilities.  Just say "M-x add-name-to-file RET".

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Re: Feature request: soft link support in Windows XP via LSE

Earnie Boyd
In reply to this post by Eli Zaretskii
On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 2:51 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>> Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 19:27:24 +0100
>> From: Erwin Waterlander
>>
>> It may be helpful for msys itself. Symlinks are often used in
>> installations. For instance links to binaries and man pages. This would
>> save disk space.
>
> Who needs to save disk space these days?
>

It has nothing to do with disk space, that is a side benefit.  The
purpose is being able to have a common file that once edited is the
same version of the file regardless of where it sits.

> Besides, every configure script knows how to fall back on cp since
> about forever.
>

It has nothing to do with configure scripts, it is more a usability
thing.  It is faster to symlink than it is to copy.

>> This would lead to that mingw is only workable inside msys, and not in
>> cmd.exe any more, which is a good thing I think.
>
> No, it would be a Bad Thing, because then MinGW will cease to be an
> environment for producing native Windows programs.  Cygwin already
> fills that niche very nicely; why do we need another one?
>

Yea, that wouldn't happen.  We need gcc working in native mode.  That
is the reason for MinGW in the first place.

--
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-- https://sites.google.com/site/earnieboyd

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Re: Feature request: soft link support in Windows XP via LSE

TP
In reply to this post by Andrew Pennebaker
On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 12:40 PM, Andrew Pennebaker
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Today I discovered "fsutil hardlink create" in Windows XP, and it seems to
> do the job nicely: When I make a change in ~/.emacs or dotfiles/emacs, one
> change is reflected in the other :)

You need to be careful though, "fsutil hardlink" on Windows XP doesn't
work like Windows 7 mklink [1].

If you change the file "in place" or copy over the top of it then
everything works fine.  If you delete or rename the target of the
hardlink, however, it becomes a copy of it.

Why does this matter? When some programs *change* a file, they rename
the original to originalname.bak (or something), and then write a new
file called originalname (or they create a new temporary file, delete
the original, and then rename the temp file to the original name,
etc). When this happens a hard link will suddenly become the
*original* file separate and distinct from its target.

[1] http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc753194.aspx

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