MinGW in the headlines! Read this article from slashdot.

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MinGW in the headlines! Read this article from slashdot.

マーズ ho han keng
http://developers.slashdot.org/story/15/05/31/1311254/mingw-and-
msvcrt-conflict-causes-floating-point-value-corruption


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Re: MinGW in the headlines! Read this article from slashdot.

KHMan
On 6/1/2015 9:03 AM, マーズ ho han keng wrote:
> http://developers.slashdot.org/story/15/05/31/1311254/mingw-and-
> msvcrt-conflict-causes-floating-point-value-corruption

And your point is?

Blog posting linked to the Slashdot item is a LOT of rubbish.

Don't assume that people who sound authoritative on blogs know
what they are doing.

--
Cheers,
Kein-Hong Man (esq.)
Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia


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Re: MinGW in the headlines! Read this article from slashdot.

KHMan
In reply to this post by マーズ ho han keng
On 6/1/2015 9:03 AM, マーズ ho han keng wrote:
> http://developers.slashdot.org/story/15/05/31/1311254/mingw-and-
> msvcrt-conflict-causes-floating-point-value-corruption

[Mild rant at Slashdot follows]

Personally, I wish such utterly weak stuff never gets to see the
light of a bigger stage like Slashdot. Disappointing standards
nowadays...

But remember, rubbish (or more generally, stuff that cause
conflict) might not be bad for Slashdot _itself_ if they drive
comments and the Slashdot bean counters get their ad views.

Lets try not to be the good sheeples they want us to be.

--
Cheers,
Kein-Hong Man (esq.)
Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia


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Re: MinGW in the headlines! Read this article from slashdot.

Yongwei Wu
In reply to this post by KHMan
On 1 June 2015 at 10:22, KHMan <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On 6/1/2015 9:03 AM, マーズ ho han keng wrote:
> > http://developers.slashdot.org/story/15/05/31/1311254/mingw-and-
> > msvcrt-conflict-causes-floating-point-value-corruption
>
> And your point is?
>
> Blog posting linked to the Slashdot item is a LOT of rubbish.
>
> Don't assume that people who sound authoritative on blogs know
> what they are doing.

BTW, the blog reports a legitimate bug of MinGW, but the summary on
Slashdot is less clear about where the problem is.

--
Wu Yongwei
URL: http://wyw.dcweb.cn/

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Re: MinGW in the headlines! Read this article from slashdot.

KHMan
On 6/1/2015 11:25 AM, Yongwei Wu wrote:

> On 1 June 2015 at 10:22, KHMan wrote:
>>
>> On 6/1/2015 9:03 AM, マーズ ho han keng wrote:
>>> http://developers.slashdot.org/story/15/05/31/1311254/mingw-and-
>>> msvcrt-conflict-causes-floating-point-value-corruption
>>
>> And your point is?
>>
>> Blog posting linked to the Slashdot item is a LOT of rubbish.
>>
>> Don't assume that people who sound authoritative on blogs know
>> what they are doing.
>
> BTW, the blog reports a legitimate bug of MinGW, but the summary on
> Slashdot is less clear about where the problem is.

The blog report has plenty of rubbish. Having said that... (and
the following is only my personal opinion and has nothing to do
with any MinGW developer, so flame me and not them)

I disagree on calling it a bug, that is a simplistic tag.

This is an impedance matching problem, the price of using a
compiler with System V ABI pedigree and trying to fit it into a
Microsoft world that always like to do things differently probably
for strategic and tactical reasons. It was always going to be messy.

 From Slashdot see [1] then see the linked posting [2], it is one
of the many tweaks available, so it's up to you to pick the poison
you want. So they have picked System V behaviour. Because of the
many matching/fitting issues, who's to say this is right or that
is wrong?

Personally I'd avoid 80 bit thingies unless it's really really
really really really unavoidable -- but in doing so it means the
program is sensitive to tiny differences >16 digits, and so I'd
better check it with 128 bit thingies too. Meh.

[1] http://www.diusrex.com/2015/05/long-double-bug-in-mingw/

[2]
http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/pipermail/cfe-commits/Week-of-Mon-20130930/090167.html

--
Cheers,
Kein-Hong Man (esq.)
Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia


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Re: MinGW in the headlines! Read this article from slashdot.

Eli Zaretskii
> Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2015 03:01:09 +0800
> From: KHMan <[hidden email]>
>
> I disagree on calling it a bug, that is a simplistic tag.

There is no bug.  Programs that need to do I/O with long double type
should define __USE_MINGW_ANSI_STDIO and be done.  Puff! the problem
is gone.

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Re: MinGW in the headlines! Read this article from slashdot.

マーズ ho han keng
Many thanks for responding, I like being the "quickest-nard."

Eli Zaretskii wrote:

>> Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2015 03:01:09 +0800
>> From: KHMan <keinhong-
[hidden email]>
>>
>> I disagree on calling it a bug, that is a simplistic tag.
>
> There is no bug.  Programs that need to do I/O with long
double type
> should define __USE_MINGW_ANSI_STDIO and be done.  Puff!
the problem
> is gone.
>
>
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Re: MinGW in the headlines! Read this article from slashdot.

Yongwei Wu
In reply to this post by Eli Zaretskii
On 2 June 2015 at 03:36, Eli Zaretskii <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2015 03:01:09 +0800
>> From: KHMan <[hidden email]>
>>
>> I disagree on calling it a bug, that is a simplistic tag.
>
> There is no bug.  Programs that need to do I/O with long double type
> should define __USE_MINGW_ANSI_STDIO and be done.  Puff! the problem
> is gone.

The bug is about outputting a long double via std::ostream, not
printf. The blogger also said it was a regression: it did not exist in
previous versions.

Based on this, I would call it a bug. I am completely OK if printf
cannot output a long double on Windows.

--
Wu Yongwei
URL: http://wyw.dcweb.cn/

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Re: MinGW in the headlines! Read this article from slashdot.

Yongwei Wu
In reply to this post by KHMan
On 2 June 2015 at 03:01, KHMan <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 6/1/2015 11:25 AM, Yongwei Wu wrote:
>> On 1 June 2015 at 10:22, KHMan wrote:
>>>
>>> On 6/1/2015 9:03 AM, マーズ ho han keng wrote:
>>>> http://developers.slashdot.org/story/15/05/31/1311254/mingw-and-
>>>> msvcrt-conflict-causes-floating-point-value-corruption
>>>
>>> And your point is?
>>>
>>> Blog posting linked to the Slashdot item is a LOT of rubbish.
>>>
>>> Don't assume that people who sound authoritative on blogs know
>>> what they are doing.
>>
>> BTW, the blog reports a legitimate bug of MinGW, but the summary on
>> Slashdot is less clear about where the problem is.
>
> The blog report has plenty of rubbish. Having said that... (and
> the following is only my personal opinion and has nothing to do
> with any MinGW developer, so flame me and not them)
>
> I disagree on calling it a bug, that is a simplistic tag.
>
> This is an impedance matching problem, the price of using a
> compiler with System V ABI pedigree and trying to fit it into a
> Microsoft world that always like to do things differently probably
> for strategic and tactical reasons. It was always going to be messy.

You are talking bullshit. If ostream cannot work with long double,
then even disabling the corresponding operator<< would be a better
solution.

BTW, I have tested to confirm that the "unofficial" MinGW-w64 GCC does
not have this issue. Do you really want people to say that the
"official" distribution is inferior?

Wake up!

--
Wu Yongwei
URL: http://wyw.dcweb.cn/

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Re: MinGW in the headlines! Read this article from slashdot.

KHMan
On 6/2/2015 11:32 AM, Yongwei Wu wrote:

> On 2 June 2015 at 03:01, KHMan wrote:
>> On 6/1/2015 11:25 AM, Yongwei Wu wrote:
>>> On 1 June 2015 at 10:22, KHMan wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 6/1/2015 9:03 AM, マーズ ho han keng wrote:
>>>>> http://developers.slashdot.org/story/15/05/31/1311254/mingw-and-
>>>>> msvcrt-conflict-causes-floating-point-value-corruption
>>>>
>>>> And your point is?
>>>>
>>>> Blog posting linked to the Slashdot item is a LOT of rubbish.
>>>>
>>>> Don't assume that people who sound authoritative on blogs know
>>>> what they are doing.
>>>
>>> BTW, the blog reports a legitimate bug of MinGW, but the summary on
>>> Slashdot is less clear about where the problem is.
>>
>> The blog report has plenty of rubbish. Having said that... (and
>> the following is only my personal opinion and has nothing to do
>> with any MinGW developer, so flame me and not them)
>>
>> I disagree on calling it a bug, that is a simplistic tag.
>>
>> This is an impedance matching problem, the price of using a
>> compiler with System V ABI pedigree and trying to fit it into a
>> Microsoft world that always like to do things differently probably
>> for strategic and tactical reasons. It was always going to be messy.
>
> You are talking bullshit. If ostream cannot work with long double,
> then even disabling the corresponding operator<< would be a better
> solution.
>
> BTW, I have tested to confirm that the "unofficial" MinGW-w64 GCC does
> not have this issue. Do you really want people to say that the
> "official" distribution is inferior?

My bad, you're right, I apologise. I got too far ahead of the
issue, heh. Someone missed __USE_MINGW_ANSI_STDIO while compiling
the compiler?

As to your last sentence, as a user I'd say, to be perfectly
frank, let's not kid ourselves. The other projects have a freer
hand on Win32 API, have newer releases, progress, momentum. I look
at MinGW files on SF and see that gcc-4.8.1-4 (2013-10-11). Looks
like stasis. So yeah, MinGW gcc is inferior. That's not a bad
thing, it's just the way FLOSS projects can be, considering recent
activity and resources.

--
Cheers,
Kein-Hong Man (esq.)
Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia


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Re: MinGW in the headlines! Read this article from slashdot.

Yongwei Wu
On 2 June 2015 at 12:28, KHMan <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 6/2/2015 11:32 AM, Yongwei Wu wrote:
>> On 2 June 2015 at 03:01, KHMan wrote:
>>> On 6/1/2015 11:25 AM, Yongwei Wu wrote:
>>>> On 1 June 2015 at 10:22, KHMan wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On 6/1/2015 9:03 AM, マーズ ho han keng wrote:
>>>>>> http://developers.slashdot.org/story/15/05/31/1311254/mingw-and-
>>>>>> msvcrt-conflict-causes-floating-point-value-corruption
>>>>>
>>>>> And your point is?
>>>>>
>>>>> Blog posting linked to the Slashdot item is a LOT of rubbish.
>>>>>
>>>>> Don't assume that people who sound authoritative on blogs know
>>>>> what they are doing.
>>>>
>>>> BTW, the blog reports a legitimate bug of MinGW, but the summary on
>>>> Slashdot is less clear about where the problem is.
>>>
>>> The blog report has plenty of rubbish. Having said that... (and
>>> the following is only my personal opinion and has nothing to do
>>> with any MinGW developer, so flame me and not them)
>>>
>>> I disagree on calling it a bug, that is a simplistic tag.
>>>
>>> This is an impedance matching problem, the price of using a
>>> compiler with System V ABI pedigree and trying to fit it into a
>>> Microsoft world that always like to do things differently probably
>>> for strategic and tactical reasons. It was always going to be messy.
>>
>> You are talking bullshit. If ostream cannot work with long double,
>> then even disabling the corresponding operator<< would be a better
>> solution.
>>
>> BTW, I have tested to confirm that the "unofficial" MinGW-w64 GCC does
>> not have this issue. Do you really want people to say that the
>> "official" distribution is inferior?
>
> My bad, you're right, I apologise. I got too far ahead of the
> issue, heh. Someone missed __USE_MINGW_ANSI_STDIO while compiling
> the compiler?
>
> As to your last sentence, as a user I'd say, to be perfectly
> frank, let's not kid ourselves. The other projects have a freer
> hand on Win32 API, have newer releases, progress, momentum. I look
> at MinGW files on SF and see that gcc-4.8.1-4 (2013-10-11). Looks
> like stasis. So yeah, MinGW gcc is inferior. That's not a bad
> thing, it's just the way FLOSS projects can be, considering recent
> activity and resources.

Thank you for your frank post.

I also looked up for some statistics:

MinGW: 4.3 Stars (161) 1,598,041 Downloads (This Week)
MinGW-w64: 4.8 Stars (87) 26,190 Downloads (This Week)

MinGW is still more popular (by a huge margin), but MinGW-w64 is doing
well with higher ranking.

--
Wu Yongwei
URL: http://wyw.dcweb.cn/

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Re: MinGW in the headlines! Read this article from slashdot.

KHMan
On 6/2/2015 1:06 PM, Yongwei Wu wrote:

> On 2 June 2015 at 12:28, KHMan <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On 6/2/2015 11:32 AM, Yongwei Wu wrote:
>>> On 2 June 2015 at 03:01, KHMan wrote:
>>>> On 6/1/2015 11:25 AM, Yongwei Wu wrote:
>>>>> On 1 June 2015 at 10:22, KHMan wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 6/1/2015 9:03 AM, マーズ ho han keng wrote:
>>>>>>> http://developers.slashdot.org/story/15/05/31/1311254/mingw-and-
>>>>>>> msvcrt-conflict-causes-floating-point-value-corruption
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And your point is?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Blog posting linked to the Slashdot item is a LOT of rubbish.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Don't assume that people who sound authoritative on blogs know
>>>>>> what they are doing.
>>>>>
>>>>> BTW, the blog reports a legitimate bug of MinGW, but the summary on
>>>>> Slashdot is less clear about where the problem is.
>>>>
>>>> The blog report has plenty of rubbish. Having said that... (and
>>>> the following is only my personal opinion and has nothing to do
>>>> with any MinGW developer, so flame me and not them)
>>>>
>>>> I disagree on calling it a bug, that is a simplistic tag.
>>>>
>>>> This is an impedance matching problem, the price of using a
>>>> compiler with System V ABI pedigree and trying to fit it into a
>>>> Microsoft world that always like to do things differently probably
>>>> for strategic and tactical reasons. It was always going to be messy.
>>>
>>> You are talking bullshit. If ostream cannot work with long double,
>>> then even disabling the corresponding operator<< would be a better
>>> solution.
>>>
>>> BTW, I have tested to confirm that the "unofficial" MinGW-w64 GCC does
>>> not have this issue. Do you really want people to say that the
>>> "official" distribution is inferior?
>>
>> My bad, you're right, I apologise. I got too far ahead of the
>> issue, heh. Someone missed __USE_MINGW_ANSI_STDIO while compiling
>> the compiler?
>>
>> As to your last sentence, as a user I'd say, to be perfectly
>> frank, let's not kid ourselves. The other projects have a freer
>> hand on Win32 API, have newer releases, progress, momentum. I look
>> at MinGW files on SF and see that gcc-4.8.1-4 (2013-10-11). Looks
>> like stasis. So yeah, MinGW gcc is inferior. That's not a bad
>> thing, it's just the way FLOSS projects can be, considering recent
>> activity and resources.
>
> Thank you for your frank post.
>
> I also looked up for some statistics:
>
> MinGW: 4.3 Stars (161) 1,598,041 Downloads (This Week)
> MinGW-w64: 4.8 Stars (87) 26,190 Downloads (This Week)
>
> MinGW is still more popular (by a huge margin), but MinGW-w64 is doing
> well with higher ranking.

I've always noticed MinGW ranked very high in the top-# lists SF
once _used_to_ send. And I've always thought of the stats as
wonder-ous... :-p Who are the downloaders? And do I even trust
anything SF says any more? :-p

But does such stats matter if one is maintaining a non-trivial
app? Check out which compilers wxWidgets 3.0.2 is supporting on
Win32. Or check the Qt wiki pages. To my beady eyes, MinGW gcc is
more like a legacy app, I say it will support millions of folks
who are learning c or c++, but a certain other demographic is
moving on.

--
Cheers,
Kein-Hong Man (esq.)
Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia


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Re: MinGW in the headlines! Read this article from slashdot.

Xiaofan Chen
In reply to this post by Yongwei Wu
On Tue, Jun 2, 2015 at 1:06 PM, Yongwei Wu <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 2 June 2015 at 12:28, KHMan <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> As to your last sentence, as a user I'd say, to be perfectly
>> frank, let's not kid ourselves. The other projects have a freer
>> hand on Win32 API, have newer releases, progress, momentum. I look
>> at MinGW files on SF and see that gcc-4.8.1-4 (2013-10-11). Looks
>> like stasis. So yeah, MinGW gcc is inferior. That's not a bad
>> thing, it's just the way FLOSS projects can be, considering recent
>> activity and resources.
>
> Thank you for your frank post.
>
> I also looked up for some statistics:
>
> MinGW: 4.3 Stars (161) 1,598,041 Downloads (This Week)
> MinGW-w64: 4.8 Stars (87) 26,190 Downloads (This Week)
>
> MinGW is still more popular (by a huge margin), but MinGW-w64 is doing
> well with higher ranking.

That is because MinGW-w64 does not have a proper installer
and the Sourceforge download is a mess as
of now, but MSYS2 project is changing that.

For the projects I am supporting, libusb-win32 is a legacy kind
of project and only supports WDK/MSVC (a bit of MinGW.org
as well), the official binary is built with WDK.

libusb is quite active and supports WDK/MSVC/MinGW/MinGW-w64
but MinGW-w64 is used to build the official binary.

I am also testing for OpenOCD project and they only
supports MinGW-w64 (MSYS2 recommended).
ref: http://repo.or.cz/w/openocd.git/blob/HEAD:/README.Windows

--
Xiaofan

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Re: MinGW in the headlines! Read this article from slashdot.

Eli Zaretskii
In reply to this post by Yongwei Wu
> Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2015 11:32:08 +0800
> From: Yongwei Wu <[hidden email]>
>
> BTW, I have tested to confirm that the "unofficial" MinGW-w64 GCC does
> not have this issue. Do you really want people to say that the
> "official" distribution is inferior?
>
> Wake up!

Would you like to produce a port of a newer GCC and make its binary
distributions available for download?

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Re: MinGW in the headlines! Read this article from slashdot.

Alan W. Irwin
In reply to this post by Xiaofan Chen
On 2015-06-02 15:02+0800 Xiaofan Chen wrote:

> On Tue, Jun 2, 2015 at 1:06 PM, Yongwei Wu <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On 2 June 2015 at 12:28, KHMan <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> As to your last sentence, as a user I'd say, to be perfectly
>>> frank, let's not kid ourselves. The other projects have a freer
>>> hand on Win32 API, have newer releases, progress, momentum. I look
>>> at MinGW files on SF and see that gcc-4.8.1-4 (2013-10-11). Looks
>>> like stasis. So yeah, MinGW gcc is inferior. That's not a bad
>>> thing, it's just the way FLOSS projects can be, considering recent
>>> activity and resources.
>>
>> Thank you for your frank post.
>>
>> I also looked up for some statistics:
>>
>> MinGW: 4.3 Stars (161) 1,598,041 Downloads (This Week)
>> MinGW-w64: 4.8 Stars (87) 26,190 Downloads (This Week)
>>
>> MinGW is still more popular (by a huge margin), but MinGW-w64 is doing
>> well with higher ranking.
>
> That is because MinGW-w64 does not have a proper installer
> and the Sourceforge download is a mess as
> of now, but MSYS2 project is changing that.

You have to be very careful comparing download statistics for SF
projects like mingw (which contains both MinGW and MSYS), mingw-w64,
and msys2.  For example, if MinGW had more components to download
than MinGW-w64 or MSYS2 than its download statistics would be
artificially inflated and vice versa.

Thus, to my mind, the best way to compare project popularity is to
look at automatic installer downloads which do not suffer from this
download component inflation since presumably any user of any of the
projects will just download the automatic installer just once for each
time they want to get a new version.

As far as I can tell (and please correct if you know better
locations), the automatic installers for all 3 projects are located at

1. The "mingw-get-setup.exe" link at
<http://sourceforge.net/projects/mingw/files/Installer/>

2. The "installer" link at
<http://sourceforge.net/projects/mingw-w64/files/Toolchains%20targetting%20Win32/Personal%20Builds/mingw-builds/>

3. The "msys2-x86_64-20150512.exe" link at http://sourceforge.net/projects/msys2/files/Base/x86_64/
(There is also a 32-bit variant of this installer, but the downloads
for it are much less so we will ignore those.)

If you look at the statistics GUI at all 3 locations, and adjust the
date range to 2014-05-27 to 2015-06-02 to get monthly statistics over
the last 12 months, the mingw-installer downloads have been flat over
the last year but averaging ~130000 per month; the mingw-w64 installer
downloads have a modest rise over the last year and have been
averaging ~60000 per month; and the msys2 installer downloads in May
(the only complete month where data is available) were ~4000.

The (surprising) conclusion from this comparison is the MinGW-w64
popularity has risen to the point where it has roughly half the
popularity of MinGW as measured by automatic installer downloads. And
I think that conclusion will be as much of a shock to those lurking on
this list as it was to me. So it is possible that I made some mistake
above on locations of the most important installers for the three
projects, and I would be happy to redo these results if someone can
recommend better locations.

The other issue is that it appears the msys2 installer has been
recently renamed so there are no monthly statistics available for it
other than May.  So to get a feel for overall msys2 growth rates, I
looked at the monthly statistics for the REPOS link at
http://sourceforge.net/projects/msys2/files/, and in the last 12
months it has risen from 13000 to ~500000 or a rise of a factor of 40!
Extrapolating an exponential rise is always a fool's game.
Nevertheless, I am going to predict if we do this comparison again in
a year's time you will see the msys2 installer popularity will be
considerably larger than its popularity now.  And a raw extrapolation
of another factor of 40 (I know I should not do that!) would mean this
method of installing _any_ form of MinGW will be the most popular, i.e.,
MinGW-w64 will become more popular than MinGW.

Interesting times for both MinGW and MinGW-w64!

Alan
__________________________
Alan W. Irwin

Astronomical research affiliation with Department of Physics and Astronomy,
University of Victoria (astrowww.phys.uvic.ca).

Programming affiliations with the FreeEOS equation-of-state
implementation for stellar interiors (freeeos.sf.net); the Time
Ephemerides project (timeephem.sf.net); PLplot scientific plotting
software package (plplot.sf.net); the libLASi project
(unifont.org/lasi); the Loads of Linux Links project (loll.sf.net);
and the Linux Brochure Project (lbproject.sf.net).
__________________________

Linux-powered Science
__________________________

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Re: MinGW in the headlines! Read this article from slashdot.

Alexey Pavlov-2

2 июня 2015 г., в 20:49, Alan W. Irwin <[hidden email]> написал(а):

You have to be very careful comparing download statistics for SF
projects like mingw (which contains both MinGW and MSYS), mingw-w64,
and msys2.  For example, if MinGW had more components to download
than MinGW-w64 or MSYS2 than its download statistics would be
artificially inflated and vice versa.

Thus, to my mind, the best way to compare project popularity is to
look at automatic installer downloads which do not suffer from this
download component inflation since presumably any user of any of the
projects will just download the automatic installer just once for each
time they want to get a new version.

As far as I can tell (and please correct if you know better
locations), the automatic installers for all 3 projects are located at

1. The "mingw-get-setup.exe" link at
<http://sourceforge.net/projects/mingw/files/Installer/>

2. The "installer" link at
<http://sourceforge.net/projects/mingw-w64/files/Toolchains%20targetting%20Win32/Personal%20Builds/mingw-builds/>

3. The "msys2-x86_64-20150512.exe" link at http://sourceforge.net/projects/msys2/files/Base/x86_64/
(There is also a 32-bit variant of this installer, but the downloads
for it are much less so we will ignore those.)

If you look at the statistics GUI at all 3 locations, and adjust the
date range to 2014-05-27 to 2015-06-02 to get monthly statistics over
the last 12 months, the mingw-installer downloads have been flat over
the last year but averaging ~130000 per month; the mingw-w64 installer
downloads have a modest rise over the last year and have been
averaging ~60000 per month; and the msys2 installer downloads in May
(the only complete month where data is available) were ~4000.

The (surprising) conclusion from this comparison is the MinGW-w64
popularity has risen to the point where it has roughly half the
popularity of MinGW as measured by automatic installer downloads. And
I think that conclusion will be as much of a shock to those lurking on
this list as it was to me. So it is possible that I made some mistake
above on locations of the most important installers for the three
projects, and I would be happy to redo these results if someone can
recommend better locations.

The other issue is that it appears the msys2 installer has been
recently renamed so there are no monthly statistics available for it
other than May.  So to get a feel for overall msys2 growth rates, I
looked at the monthly statistics for the REPOS link at
http://sourceforge.net/projects/msys2/files/, and in the last 12
months it has risen from 13000 to ~500000 or a rise of a factor of 40!
Extrapolating an exponential rise is always a fool's game.
Nevertheless, I am going to predict if we do this comparison again in
a year's time you will see the msys2 installer popularity will be
considerably larger than its popularity now.  And a raw extrapolation
of another factor of 40 (I know I should not do that!) would mean this
method of installing _any_ form of MinGW will be the most popular, i.e.,
MinGW-w64 will become more popular than MinGW.

We create time to time new installers for MSYS2 with recent updates so every new snapshot is new file. That is why statistic is empty for installer.

Regards,
Alexey.

Interesting times for both MinGW and MinGW-w64!


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Re: MinGW in the headlines! Read this article from slashdot.

Alan W. Irwin
On 2015-06-02 21:50+0300 Alexpux wrote:

>
>> 2 июня 2015 г., в 20:49, Alan W. Irwin <[hidden email]> написал(а):
>>
>> [...] The other issue is that it appears the msys2 installer has been
>> recently renamed so there are no monthly statistics available for it
>> other than May.  So to get a feel for overall msys2 growth rates, I
>> looked at the monthly statistics for the REPOS link at
>> http://sourceforge.net/projects/msys2/files/ <http://sourceforge.net/projects/msys2/files/>, and in the last 12
>> months it has risen from 13000 to ~500000 or a rise of a factor of 40!
>> Extrapolating an exponential rise is always a fool's game.
>> Nevertheless, I am going to predict if we do this comparison again in
>> a year's time you will see the msys2 installer popularity will be
>> considerably larger than its popularity now.  And a raw extrapolation
>> of another factor of 40 (I know I should not do that!) would mean this
>> method of installing _any_ form of MinGW will be the most popular, i.e.,
>> MinGW-w64 will become more popular than MinGW.
>
> We create time to time new installers for MSYS2 with recent updates so every new snapshot is new file. That is why statistic is empty for installer.

Thanks, Alexey, for that clarification.

I also just realized even that single May download statistic of ~4000
that I quoted for the present MSYS2 installer was incomplete so
instead I looked from the first date where there were downloads
(2015-05-12) to the present date, and that total number is 4,363 so if
you prorate those 22 days to 30 days, that works out to a rate of
~6000 downloads per month which is a little fairer to MSYS2 then my
previous estimate. Everyone can draw their own conclusions about how
much that number will increase over the course of the next year
considering the enormous increase in the popularity of MSYS2 as a
whole over this past year.

Alexey is already aware of this, but for the others of you here, the
only Windows platform I test with is Wine, and through a combination
of circumstances (<https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=35561>) I
have not been able to try out MinGW-w64/MSYS2/Wine in the past and so
my only current practical experience with compilers on a Windows
platform is with MinGW/MSYS/Wine.  However, in light of the above
most-encouraging statistics for MinGW-w64/MSYS2, I hope to try
MinGW-w64/MSYS2/Wine again in the near future.

Alan
__________________________
Alan W. Irwin

Astronomical research affiliation with Department of Physics and Astronomy,
University of Victoria (astrowww.phys.uvic.ca).

Programming affiliations with the FreeEOS equation-of-state
implementation for stellar interiors (freeeos.sf.net); the Time
Ephemerides project (timeephem.sf.net); PLplot scientific plotting
software package (plplot.sf.net); the libLASi project
(unifont.org/lasi); the Loads of Linux Links project (loll.sf.net);
and the Linux Brochure Project (lbproject.sf.net).
__________________________

Linux-powered Science
__________________________

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Re: MinGW in the headlines! Read this article from slashdot.

Alexey Pavlov-2

2 июня 2015 г., в 23:47, Alan W. Irwin <[hidden email]> написал(а):

On 2015-06-02 21:50+0300 Alexpux wrote:


2 июня 2015 г., в 20:49, Alan W. Irwin <[hidden email]> написал(а):

[...] The other issue is that it appears the msys2 installer has been
recently renamed so there are no monthly statistics available for it
other than May.  So to get a feel for overall msys2 growth rates, I
looked at the monthly statistics for the REPOS link at
http://sourceforge.net/projects/msys2/files/ <http://sourceforge.net/projects/msys2/files/>, and in the last 12
months it has risen from 13000 to ~500000 or a rise of a factor of 40!
Extrapolating an exponential rise is always a fool's game.
Nevertheless, I am going to predict if we do this comparison again in
a year's time you will see the msys2 installer popularity will be
considerably larger than its popularity now.  And a raw extrapolation
of another factor of 40 (I know I should not do that!) would mean this
method of installing _any_ form of MinGW will be the most popular, i.e.,
MinGW-w64 will become more popular than MinGW.

We create time to time new installers for MSYS2 with recent updates so every new snapshot is new file. That is why statistic is empty for installer.

Thanks, Alexey, for that clarification.

I also just realized even that single May download statistic of ~4000
that I quoted for the present MSYS2 installer was incomplete so
instead I looked from the first date where there were downloads
(2015-05-12) to the present date, and that total number is 4,363 so if
you prorate those 22 days to 30 days, that works out to a rate of
~6000 downloads per month which is a little fairer to MSYS2 then my
previous estimate. Everyone can draw their own conclusions about how
much that number will increase over the course of the next year
considering the enormous increase in the popularity of MSYS2 as a
whole over this past year.

Installers in most cases used by new users or developers that use MSYS2 as part of it’s own build system, like 

Users that have already installed MSYS2 update it with package manager without downloading new installer.
MSYS2 use «pacman» package manager that is ported from Arch Linux so you can easy get recent updates with some commands from the shell. This is why REPOS have a lot of downloads. Some users also create it’s own mirrors of our packages to not depends from sf.net that is down very often last three months.


Alexey is already aware of this, but for the others of you here, the
only Windows platform I test with is Wine, and through a combination
of circumstances (<https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=35561>) I
have not been able to try out MinGW-w64/MSYS2/Wine in the past and so
my only current practical experience with compilers on a Windows
platform is with MinGW/MSYS/Wine.  However, in light of the above
most-encouraging statistics for MinGW-w64/MSYS2, I hope to try
MinGW-w64/MSYS2/Wine again in the near future.

Alan
__________________________
Alan W. Irwin

Astronomical research affiliation with Department of Physics and Astronomy,
University of Victoria (astrowww.phys.uvic.ca).

Programming affiliations with the FreeEOS equation-of-state
implementation for stellar interiors (freeeos.sf.net); the Time
Ephemerides project (timeephem.sf.net); PLplot scientific plotting
software package (plplot.sf.net); the libLASi project
(unifont.org/lasi); the Loads of Linux Links project (loll.sf.net);
and the Linux Brochure Project (lbproject.sf.net).
__________________________

Linux-powered Science
__________________________

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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