new thread library aimed at c++11 and later development.

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new thread library aimed at c++11 and later development.

Ralph Engels
A new thread library named mcfgthread, which probably will be a
replacement for the various windows versions of pthread's we use
nowadays is in develoment.

The code was donated to the FCF and might be added to the gcc sources at
some point. It's about 10 times faster than winpthreads and uses native
windows TLS functions but has not yet been tested on windows XP, so if
anyone here still uses it the developer would like to know if it works
when bootstrapping gcc.

Sadly it does not support OS older than XP because the native TLS
functions are not present  in those.

So if anyone would like to try out a gcc bootstrap on XP he would be
happy to hear about bugs or the lack thereof :)

the thread library can be downloaded from github here
https://github.com/lhmouse/mcfgthread you also need a small patch to
enable support for this thread library which he can gice you.

atm the objc library cannot be built with this thread library because
objc uses its own wrappers which are not yet ported to use mcfgthread,
any one who could help in that regard are also welcome to pitch in.


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Re: new thread library aimed at c++11 and later development.

Earnie Boyd
On 6/25/2016 2:20 PM, ralph engels wrote:

> A new thread library named mcfgthread, which probably will be a
> replacement for the various windows versions of pthread's we use
> nowadays is in develoment.
>
> The code was donated to the FCF and might be added to the gcc sources at
> some point. It's about 10 times faster than winpthreads and uses native
> windows TLS functions but has not yet been tested on windows XP, so if
> anyone here still uses it the developer would like to know if it works
> when bootstrapping gcc.
>
> Sadly it does not support OS older than XP because the native TLS
> functions are not present  in those.
>
> So if anyone would like to try out a gcc bootstrap on XP he would be
> happy to hear about bugs or the lack thereof :)
>
> the thread library can be downloaded from github here
> https://github.com/lhmouse/mcfgthread you also need a small patch to
> enable support for this thread library which he can gice you.
>
> atm the objc library cannot be built with this thread library because
> objc uses its own wrappers which are not yet ported to use mcfgthread,
> any one who could help in that regard are also welcome to pitch in.

Thanks for letting us know Ralph. While XP is unsupported by the vendor;
it is still in use even by banks and hospitals.  It's a shame that we
have to abandon them as well.  I even have one computer with Win 9x
albeit not used for anything of importance.

If no one is willing to test then we cannot continue to support it
either.  Let this be a warning to you if you need to continue to support
XP that you need to help test it to have it.

--
Earnie

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Re: new thread library aimed at c++11 and later development.

Eli Zaretskii
> From: Earnie <[hidden email]>
> Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2016 00:05:17 -0400
>
> On 6/25/2016 2:20 PM, ralph engels wrote:
> > A new thread library named mcfgthread, which probably will be a
> > replacement for the various windows versions of pthread's we use
> > nowadays is in develoment.
> >
> > The code was donated to the FCF and might be added to the gcc sources at
> > some point. It's about 10 times faster than winpthreads and uses native
> > windows TLS functions but has not yet been tested on windows XP, so if
> > anyone here still uses it the developer would like to know if it works
> > when bootstrapping gcc.
> >
> > Sadly it does not support OS older than XP because the native TLS
> > functions are not present  in those.
> >
> > So if anyone would like to try out a gcc bootstrap on XP he would be
> > happy to hear about bugs or the lack thereof :)
> >
> > the thread library can be downloaded from github here
> > https://github.com/lhmouse/mcfgthread you also need a small patch to
> > enable support for this thread library which he can gice you.
> >
> > atm the objc library cannot be built with this thread library because
> > objc uses its own wrappers which are not yet ported to use mcfgthread,
> > any one who could help in that regard are also welcome to pitch in.
>
> Thanks for letting us know Ralph. While XP is unsupported by the vendor;
> it is still in use even by banks and hospitals.  It's a shame that we
> have to abandon them as well.  I even have one computer with Win 9x
> albeit not used for anything of importance.
>
> If no one is willing to test then we cannot continue to support it
> either.  Let this be a warning to you if you need to continue to support
> XP that you need to help test it to have it.

I'm willing to test GCC on XP (and did so in the past), but actually
building GCC on XP, which is what was requested here AFAIU, is
something else.  The amount of effort and time it will take for
someone who never built GCC on Windows is substantial, to say the
least.

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Re: new thread library aimed at c++11 and later development.

Riccardo Mottola
Hi,


On 26/06/2016 17:45, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> I'm willing to test GCC on XP (and did so in the past), but actually
> building GCC on XP, which is what was requested here AFAIU, is
> something else.  The amount of effort and time it will take for
> someone who never built GCC on Windows is substantial, to say the
> least.

right... I still use WinXP and even have Win2000, but I mostly test my
own stuff there and work more and more on Vista and Win7, also because
the machines I have are more capable!
Is much ram needed to build GCC on windows?

I never built GCC on windows... I did it several times on Unix though.
If it is vital to test the new stuff, then I can offer my help, but it
would be better to have clear guidance from who already built gcc, so
that the same options are used. It has also a maze of dependencies.

I don't use C++ myself, so what I could offer is a raw "build" of gcc
itself.

Would the Obj-C part also use the new threads?

Riccardo

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Re: new thread library aimed at c++11 and later development.

Ralph Engels
In reply to this post by Eli Zaretskii
I can provide a build of gcc-5.4.0 but its a mingw-w64 build so im not
sure it would work,

maybe better if i try to create a bootstrap of the mingw.org version and
upload it somewhere for you to try ?.


Den 26-06-2016 kl. 17:45 skrev Eli Zaretskii:

>> From: Earnie <[hidden email]>
>> Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2016 00:05:17 -0400
>>
>> On 6/25/2016 2:20 PM, ralph engels wrote:
>>> A new thread library named mcfgthread, which probably will be a
>>> replacement for the various windows versions of pthread's we use
>>> nowadays is in develoment.
>>>
>>> The code was donated to the FCF and might be added to the gcc sources at
>>> some point. It's about 10 times faster than winpthreads and uses native
>>> windows TLS functions but has not yet been tested on windows XP, so if
>>> anyone here still uses it the developer would like to know if it works
>>> when bootstrapping gcc.
>>>
>>> Sadly it does not support OS older than XP because the native TLS
>>> functions are not present  in those.
>>>
>>> So if anyone would like to try out a gcc bootstrap on XP he would be
>>> happy to hear about bugs or the lack thereof :)
>>>
>>> the thread library can be downloaded from github here
>>> https://github.com/lhmouse/mcfgthread you also need a small patch to
>>> enable support for this thread library which he can gice you.
>>>
>>> atm the objc library cannot be built with this thread library because
>>> objc uses its own wrappers which are not yet ported to use mcfgthread,
>>> any one who could help in that regard are also welcome to pitch in.
>> Thanks for letting us know Ralph. While XP is unsupported by the vendor;
>> it is still in use even by banks and hospitals.  It's a shame that we
>> have to abandon them as well.  I even have one computer with Win 9x
>> albeit not used for anything of importance.
>>
>> If no one is willing to test then we cannot continue to support it
>> either.  Let this be a warning to you if you need to continue to support
>> XP that you need to help test it to have it.
> I'm willing to test GCC on XP (and did so in the past), but actually
> building GCC on XP, which is what was requested here AFAIU, is
> something else.  The amount of effort and time it will take for
> someone who never built GCC on Windows is substantial, to say the
> least.
>
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Re: new thread library aimed at c++11 and later development.

Ralph Engels
In reply to this post by Eli Zaretskii
Small correction, i wrote that it was the lack of native TLS functions
on XP and older but actually it is imperfectness of keyed events on XP
and older that is the reason why we need testing.


Den 26-06-2016 kl. 17:45 skrev Eli Zaretskii:

>> From: Earnie <[hidden email]>
>> Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2016 00:05:17 -0400
>>
>> On 6/25/2016 2:20 PM, ralph engels wrote:
>>> A new thread library named mcfgthread, which probably will be a
>>> replacement for the various windows versions of pthread's we use
>>> nowadays is in develoment.
>>>
>>> The code was donated to the FCF and might be added to the gcc sources at
>>> some point. It's about 10 times faster than winpthreads and uses native
>>> windows TLS functions but has not yet been tested on windows XP, so if
>>> anyone here still uses it the developer would like to know if it works
>>> when bootstrapping gcc.
>>>
>>> Sadly it does not support OS older than XP because the native TLS
>>> functions are not present  in those.
>>>
>>> So if anyone would like to try out a gcc bootstrap on XP he would be
>>> happy to hear about bugs or the lack thereof :)
>>>
>>> the thread library can be downloaded from github here
>>> https://github.com/lhmouse/mcfgthread you also need a small patch to
>>> enable support for this thread library which he can gice you.
>>>
>>> atm the objc library cannot be built with this thread library because
>>> objc uses its own wrappers which are not yet ported to use mcfgthread,
>>> any one who could help in that regard are also welcome to pitch in.
>> Thanks for letting us know Ralph. While XP is unsupported by the vendor;
>> it is still in use even by banks and hospitals.  It's a shame that we
>> have to abandon them as well.  I even have one computer with Win 9x
>> albeit not used for anything of importance.
>>
>> If no one is willing to test then we cannot continue to support it
>> either.  Let this be a warning to you if you need to continue to support
>> XP that you need to help test it to have it.
> I'm willing to test GCC on XP (and did so in the past), but actually
> building GCC on XP, which is what was requested here AFAIU, is
> something else.  The amount of effort and time it will take for
> someone who never built GCC on Windows is substantial, to say the
> least.
>
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Re: new thread library aimed at c++11 and later development.

Eli Zaretskii
In reply to this post by Ralph Engels
> From: ralph engels <[hidden email]>
> Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2016 22:28:43 +0200
>
> I can provide a build of gcc-5.4.0 but its a mingw-w64 build so im not
> sure it would work,

Even if it would, I don't want to mix distributions, it's a recipe for
trouble.

> maybe better if i try to create a bootstrap of the mingw.org version and
> upload it somewhere for you to try ?.

Yes, a mingw.org based version of 5.4 would be good, along with some
instructions for what and how to test.

Thanks.

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Re: new thread library aimed at c++11 and later development.

Ralph Engels
Follow up on the new thread library.

Need to make few small adjustments to the mcfgthread library to enable
building and bootstrapping gcc with it for the mingw.org compilers, this
might take a little while but as soon as i have something that works i
will post a link to the prebuilt gcc. What we need to know at that time
would be if it fails to allocate threads when compiling c++11 and later
c++, but also standard stuff.

Thanks again for the help :)

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Re: new thread library aimed at c++11 and later development.

Riccardo Mottola
In reply to this post by Ralph Engels
Hi,

On 26/06/2016 22:30, ralph engels wrote:
> Small correction, i wrote that it was the lack of native TLS functions
> on XP and older but actually it is imperfectness of keyed events on XP
> and older that is the reason why we need testing.

Eli, are you doing the necessary test? Else I can do them, if I have a
step-by-step guide. I have access to a pretty powerful XP Quad-core as
well as my older Laptop with Centrino.
Do we need to test the gcc bootstrap and self-build or actually also use
the produced compiler?

If you can provide a package of the produced compiler, I could test it
with Objective-C code.

Riccardo

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Re: new thread library aimed at c++11 and later development.

Eli Zaretskii
> From: Riccardo Mottola <[hidden email]>
> Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2016 20:18:21 +0200
>
> On 26/06/2016 22:30, ralph engels wrote:
> > Small correction, i wrote that it was the lack of native TLS functions
> > on XP and older but actually it is imperfectness of keyed events on XP
> > and older that is the reason why we need testing.
>
> Eli, are you doing the necessary test?

Not yet, because neither the GCC distribution that should be tested
nor the instructions for testing were published, AFAIK.

> Else I can do them

Please do, and thanks.  I only volunteered because no one else did.

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Re: new thread library aimed at c++11 and later development.

Riccardo Mottola
Hi,

On 02/07/2016 20:24, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>>
>> Eli, are you doing the necessary test?
> Not yet, because neither the GCC distribution that should be tested
> nor the instructions for testing were published, AFAIK.
>
>> Else I can do them
> Please do, and thanks.  I only volunteered because no one else did.
>

Well then I too wait for the instructions. I never built gcc on windows.

Riccardo

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Re: new thread library aimed at c++11 and later development.

Ralph Engels
In reply to this post by Eli Zaretskii
Sorry that it's taken a bit longer than expected to provide a gcc built
against it. I have to make some minor adjustments to the mcfgthread
source code for it to build with the mingw.org api and i been having
guests for some weeks so it was a little hard finding any time to make
the nessesary changes. I should be free now to do the preliminary work,
but if someone else is going to take it up thats also ok.

Revelator

Den 02-07-2016 kl. 20:24 skrev Eli Zaretskii:

>> From: Riccardo Mottola <[hidden email]>
>> Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2016 20:18:21 +0200
>>
>> On 26/06/2016 22:30, ralph engels wrote:
>>> Small correction, i wrote that it was the lack of native TLS functions
>>> on XP and older but actually it is imperfectness of keyed events on XP
>>> and older that is the reason why we need testing.
>> Eli, are you doing the necessary test?
> Not yet, because neither the GCC distribution that should be tested
> nor the instructions for testing were published, AFAIK.
>
>> Else I can do them
> Please do, and thanks.  I only volunteered because no one else did.
>
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Re: new thread library aimed at c++11 and later development.

Ralph Engels
In reply to this post by Eli Zaretskii
Doing a 3 stage bootstrap of gcc-5.4.0 now with mcfgthread, it should be
done in a few hours or so :).

We had to make some changes to the build structure of mcfgthread to make
it work with mingw.org but i can report 100% success building and
testing it now.

I am going to create a fork of mcfgthread for use with the mingw.org
compiler and api which should be kept in sync with the main repository,
if someone is willing to take over maintainance of the fork i will hand
over the keys to that person.

I will post a link to the gcc compiler and thread library when the
bootstrap is done.

Regards Revelator

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Re: new thread library aimed at c++11 and later development.

Ralph Engels
In reply to this post by Eli Zaretskii
3 part bootstrap of mingw.org gcc with mcfgthread support here

https://sourceforge.net/projects/cbadvanced/files/Tools/gcc-5.4.0-mcfgthreads-w32-mingw.org.tar.lzma/download

and the mcfgthread library built for mingw.org here

https://sourceforge.net/projects/cbadvanced/files/Tools/mcfgthreads-git-mingw.org.tar.lzma/download

We need tests on XP to see if it works there, you are also welcome to
try testing it on older OS but the nessesary support might be lacking on
those so expect failure.

objc and obj-c++ support still needs work because the objc thread
wrappers for the new thread library are missing from gcc sources an
needs to be added (working on that part).

Also im am going to fork of the mcfgthread project for mingw.org because
the developer would rather have it in a seperate branch, anyone at
mingw.org who wants to take over maintainance of this fork is welcome to
contact me.

Revelator

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Re: new thread library aimed at c++11 and later development.

Eli Zaretskii
> From: ralph engels <[hidden email]>
> Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2016 21:19:35 +0200
>
> 3 part bootstrap of mingw.org gcc with mcfgthread support here
>
> https://sourceforge.net/projects/cbadvanced/files/Tools/gcc-5.4.0-mcfgthreads-w32-mingw.org.tar.lzma/download
>
> and the mcfgthread library built for mingw.org here
>
> https://sourceforge.net/projects/cbadvanced/files/Tools/mcfgthreads-git-mingw.org.tar.lzma/download
>
> We need tests on XP to see if it works there, you are also welcome to
> try testing it on older OS but the nessesary support might be lacking on
> those so expect failure.

Thanks, but please provide instructions for testing: what features in
which languages (C++, I presume) need to be tested, and preferably
also test programs to compile and run with expected results.

I know almost nothing about the problem(s) this build attempts to
solve, so the only practical way for me to help testing it is to tell
me what to test, as exactly as reasonably possible.

Thanks!

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Re: new thread library aimed at c++11 and later development.

Ralph Engels
Sorry was a bit late when i wrote that.

He just needs to know if it even works reliably on XP as far as i could
understand,

though i suspect building a simple c++11 application should show us just
that :),

since it uses some functions from the mcfgthread library itself.

Could also try out some torture tests to see how stable it is under strain.

  If you know of anyone who could pitch in on porting objc to the new
thread model even better :),

atm im making an effort to do just that,

but im rather inexperienced with objc so alone it would probably take me
a good while to have something usefull.

But all help is welcome.

Revelator

Den 05-07-2016 kl. 04:30 skrev Eli Zaretskii:

>> From: ralph engels <[hidden email]>
>> Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2016 21:19:35 +0200
>>
>> 3 part bootstrap of mingw.org gcc with mcfgthread support here
>>
>> https://sourceforge.net/projects/cbadvanced/files/Tools/gcc-5.4.0-mcfgthreads-w32-mingw.org.tar.lzma/download
>>
>> and the mcfgthread library built for mingw.org here
>>
>> https://sourceforge.net/projects/cbadvanced/files/Tools/mcfgthreads-git-mingw.org.tar.lzma/download
>>
>> We need tests on XP to see if it works there, you are also welcome to
>> try testing it on older OS but the nessesary support might be lacking on
>> those so expect failure.
> Thanks, but please provide instructions for testing: what features in
> which languages (C++, I presume) need to be tested, and preferably
> also test programs to compile and run with expected results.
>
> I know almost nothing about the problem(s) this build attempts to
> solve, so the only practical way for me to help testing it is to tell
> me what to test, as exactly as reasonably possible.
>
> Thanks!
>
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Re: new thread library aimed at c++11 and later development.

Ralph Engels
In reply to this post by Eli Zaretskii
Uploaded the fork of mcfgthread ported for the mingw.org api here
https://github.com/revelator/mcfgthread-mingw

I will try to keep it up to date with the main branch, untill someone
decides to take over maintainance.

TODO:
1: port objc's thread wrappers to take advantage of the new thread
library (neither objc nor obj-c++ can be built untill then).
2: Find out if this thread library is usable on XP.

Eli has recived a newly built gcc that uses this this thread library for
testing, lets see if it works out.
If you want to rebuild this library yourself, just execute
./build_i386.sh in a mingw bash shell, the resulting library should be
located in the release/mingw folder.

Atm it is not possible to link statically to mcfgthread without hacking
the crt, but at some point i guess it will be. Since the code was
donated to the gcc devs it might be a future replacement for using win32
threads since it allows C++11 and later development, the work we do now
might just help make that a possibility sooner rather than later.

Happy coding. Revelator

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Re: new thread library aimed at c++11 and later development.

K. Frank
In reply to this post by Eli Zaretskii
Hi Eli (and Ralph)!

On Mon, Jul 4, 2016 at 10:30 PM, Eli Zaretskii <[hidden email]> wrote:

>> From: ralph engels <[hidden email]>
>> Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2016 21:19:35 +0200
>>
>> 3 part bootstrap of mingw.org gcc with mcfgthread support here
>> ...
>> We need tests on XP to see if it works there, you are also welcome to
>> try testing it on older OS but the nessesary support might be lacking on
>> those so expect failure.
>
> Thanks, but please provide instructions for testing: what features in
> which languages (C++, I presume) need to be tested, and preferably
> also test programs to compile and run with expected results.

Speaking from memory, the gcc sources contain a suite of
std::thread tests.  I have no idea whether these have ever
made it into mingw land.  (Assuming mcfgthread is complete
on xp, I can't think of any reason they wouldn't work on xp.)

Several years ago I ran some of the gcc std::thread tests "by
hand."  (I didn't have the patience to download, install, and
run the automated gcc testing framework as it depended on
yet more stuff.)

My guess is that the test suite exercises most of the individual
features of std::thread, and therefor should exercise much
of mcfgthread. (I don't recall the test suite containing any
stress testing, but I could be wrong.)

> I know almost nothing about the problem(s) this build attempts to
> solve, so the only practical way for me to help testing it is to tell
> me what to test, as exactly as reasonably possible.

I will let Ralph speak to this, but I believe that one (not all)
of Ralph's goals is to support std::thread independently of
pthreads, so testing with the gcc test suite on xp might be
a reasonable start.

> Thanks!


Happy Multi-Threaded Hacking!


K. Frank

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Re: new thread library aimed at c++11 and later development.

Eli Zaretskii
> From: "K. Frank" <[hidden email]>
> Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2016 11:55:33 -0400
>
> > Thanks, but please provide instructions for testing: what features in
> > which languages (C++, I presume) need to be tested, and preferably
> > also test programs to compile and run with expected results.
>
> Speaking from memory, the gcc sources contain a suite of
> std::thread tests.

Don't they need 'expect'/DejaGnu to run them?  If so, setting that up
on Windows is highly non-trivial, AFAIK.

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Re: new thread library aimed at c++11 and later development.

K. Frank
Hi Eli!

On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 12:43 PM, Eli Zaretskii <[hidden email]> wrote:

>> From: "K. Frank" <[hidden email]>
>> Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2016 11:55:33 -0400
>>
>> > Thanks, but please provide instructions for testing: what features in
>> > which languages (C++, I presume) need to be tested, and preferably
>> > also test programs to compile and run with expected results.
>>
>> Speaking from memory, the gcc sources contain a suite of
>> std::thread tests.
>
> Don't they need 'expect'/DejaGnu to run them?  If so, setting that up
> on Windows is highly non-trivial, AFAIK.

Again, speaking form memory ...

I don't remember specifically what was required by the automated
gcc std::thread test suite.  It may very well need the DejaGnu you
mention.

I do recall that it depended on something I didn't want to hassle
with so I didn't run the whole test suite (which presumably would
have been easy if I had used the automation).

Instead I ran three or four specific tests that caught my fancy
by downloading the test code and compiling it by hand from the
command line with gcc (mingw-w64) using my experimental
std::thread implementation.

I don't know one way or another whether the gcc test framework
would be "highly non-trivial" to set up on windows.  Once I saw
that the framework depended on "yet more stuff" (TM), I said
the heck with it and moved on (based on my general allergy to
dependency bloat).

My recollection is that the test suite was sensible, directed at
individual features, and not stress focused.  I have no idea
whether it would add enough value to be worth the apparent
bother.


Good luck.


K. Frank

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